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If any of you all have a few extra minutes today or tomorrow and you are inclined to take pity on the Sick!Seraph, please reply to this and talk to me a little about what you think about BDSM fics, and if you know other readers/writers who like/dislike them, encourage them to drop by too.
Your answers can be free form, of course, but I'm particularly interested if you respond differently to BDSM fics if they are FPS vs RPS. Like them better in one form or another? Why? The same thing for writers. Are you more likely to write BDSM in FPS or RPS? Why? What is it about BDSM fics that you particularly enjoy? Or if you are one of those people who see a BDSM warning on a fic and think, "I'll pass," why? Are there any cliches or trends in BDSM fics that bother you? What are they and why?
I'm mostly focusing on the LOTR fandoms here, because saying anything specifically that applies to a single fandom is near impossible. It becomes even more so when extended across fandoms.
*toddles off to medicate self*
Your answers can be free form, of course, but I'm particularly interested if you respond differently to BDSM fics if they are FPS vs RPS. Like them better in one form or another? Why? The same thing for writers. Are you more likely to write BDSM in FPS or RPS? Why? What is it about BDSM fics that you particularly enjoy? Or if you are one of those people who see a BDSM warning on a fic and think, "I'll pass," why? Are there any cliches or trends in BDSM fics that bother you? What are they and why?
I'm mostly focusing on the LOTR fandoms here, because saying anything specifically that applies to a single fandom is near impossible. It becomes even more so when extended across fandoms.
*toddles off to medicate self*
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I don't think I do respond differently, no. As long as I can believe in them, I'll enjoy them equally.
The same thing for writers. Are you more likely to write BDSM in FPS or RPS? Why?
Well, I don't write much, but I have written mild BDSM in both, so no, no difference.
What is it about BDSM fics that you particularly enjoy?
Should there be a highly intellectual answer here, or can I just say "They turn me on!"? I love the power-play and the tension it creates.
Or if you are one of those people who see a BDSM warning on a fic and think, "I'll pass," why?
I certainly won't pass on a BDSM warning, but I probably will if I see a non-con or heavy violence warning. I have to empathise with characters to enjoy fic and I don't get any enjoyment from rape or serious injury.
Are there any cliches or trends in BDSM fics that bother you? What are they and why?
Hmmm. *thinks*
-The over-use of the term 'slave'.
-Fics where I have no idea why the characters are doing what they are doing, because the psychology hasn't been explored or is all wrong.
-Fics that bother me morally because of blurry lines about consent or portrayal of rape as enjoyable. I know there are people who have rape fantasies, and I know some people play around with that as part of D/s relationships, but to write about it requires a huge amount of insight and understanding and is far easier to do wrong than right. Even writing this explanation of what I feel is proving difficult! I'm not saying "don't write rape fics", I'm saying be very, very careful they say what you want them to say.
- People who write about whipping or flogging with no idea about what it actually involves and how much pain different implements create.
-People who write without having a clue generally!
I think that's all for now. *g*
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Thanks for posting!
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That's interesting, but I have different standards when it comes to BDSM in FPS and BDSM in RPS. I always have different standards for sex in general. I really don't expect Aragorn to pull out a condom and lubricant, but if there's none of that in Sean/Viggo, it reads hollow. I know it can be hard to stick it in the fic, but try. I expect Sean and Viggo to have a safeword, even if it's not used (and safeword!fic is far too rare, in my opinion), but I think Boromir would scoff at the idea of a safeword.
I'm much more tolerant of unsafe sex in FPS because I know it's a different world, and that these people are fake. I can't stand RPS rape fic, but if it's done well in FPS, then I'll read it. I can disengage more when it's Aragorn raping Boromir and not Viggo raping Sean. The sexual and relationship politics are different and RPS is not FPS. Different ideaologies and different ideas, so the schism (that's not the right word, but I can't think of the right one) between them is very clear, even if it can overlap.
The same thing for writers. Are you more likely to write BDSM in FPS or RPS? Why?
I'm much more likely to write BDSM in RPS, for the reason that I write more RPS than FPS these days. When it comes down to Goldeneye fic, I'll toss kink into it, but I don't consider that kink BDSM because I don't think Alec or James would have. They'd've just tied each other to the bed or used knives, and wouldn't have bothered with SSC.
For me, a fic isn't BDSM unless it's safe, sane, and consensual, and it really does piss me off when there's a "looking for fic" post and it calls a rapefic BDSM, because I think that's mislabeling. *shrug*
I wrote some heavy kink in LOTR FPS, but I don't consider those fics BDSM for various reasons. I do think you can do BDSM in FPS, but I do think that it's harder, because it's a different universe. FPS universes that are Earth- or present day-universes are probably easier with this. Smallville BDSM fics can be pretty dern cool.
What is it about BDSM fics that you particularly enjoy?
The power exchange. The trust between the two parties. How hot the sex can be. And, face it, I love bondage. Anything with bondage gets a check in my book.
I'm not too much into humiliation and I hate forced feminization. I read this fic where Orli was trying to get into Sean's pants, and so he dressed up as a woman and got him into bed that way. o.O That kind of put me off crossdressing for awhile.
I write a lot of BDSM in the Establishment, and there I think I like it because of the relationships between the characters. For two of my characters, their relationships revolve around the kink, and they're 24/7. I love exploring how you can have a working and loving relationship while still beating the crap out of each other every few days.
Are there any cliches or trends in BDSM fics that bother you? What are they and why?
Fuck yes. The first is the Evil Dom Syndrome. That's when the author decides that her character needs some angst, and so she throws in a Tragic Past, complete with an Evil Dominant. This dominant probably abused the character and ignored the safeword. This trend is much more common in RPS than FPS, but in FPS it can manifest in other ways. I read a fic once where Boromir was abused by a captain in his army. Urgh.
I also hate this idea that there are some kinks that are okay, and that there are some kinks that aren't okay. There are some kinks that, yes, are kind of central to one fandom or another. My favourite kink in the world is mind control, and I'm much more likely to find that kink in Star Wars than in Fight Club. Actually, wait, maybe Fight Club isn't that good an example. ;)
I really hate the weak submissive trend. I hate push-over submissives who follow pathetically after their dominants. I keep poking them, yelling at them to grow a backbone. That just bothers me. *shrug*
*snugs you and feeds you medicine*
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no subject
I'm much more tolerant of unsafe sex in FPS because I know it's a different world, and that these people are fake. I can't stand RPS rape fic, but if it's done well in FPS, then I'll read it. I can disengage more when it's Aragorn raping Boromir and not Viggo raping Sean. The sexual and relationship politics are different and RPS is not FPS. Different ideaologies and different ideas, so the schism (that's not the right word, but I can't think of the right one) between them is very clear, even if it can overlap.
I think that it's where my paper is heading because there is a difference there for me too, and it seems for a lot of people, even if they aren't conscious of it, based on what they are writing. Any thoughts about why you respond this way?
Really liked what you had to say about issues of consent as well. And much that is labelled BDSM being something else entirely.
*takes medicine, coughs and wheezes a little*
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**and a warm schnnoogly pet of your choice to nap and send out healing vibes**
And Sean'n'ViggoUm, did you want me to answer here, what a great idea, btw. If so I'll come back later tonight, working working working working on pronouns and queer stuff. blah hah hah.
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To answer your questions:
I tend to find RPS more to my tastes than FRS. I find that BDSM FRS is often more about power than emotion, whereas the RPS's I read deal with emotional connections rather than just sex and power. There are plenty of RPS's out there that fall into the sex and power category, but I tend not to read them. Conversely, I haven't found much FRS that doesn't fall into the sex and power category.
I can't write fiction to save my life, so I'm afraid I can't help here. :)
The works of Ashlyn K Toliver, an author who recently started posting on Rugbytacking and Mirrormere, are perfect examples of what I like in BDSM's fics. The sex is clear and well-written, and the BDSM aspect is an expression of love, caring, and trust between two people. It's not just about power games.
What I don't like: slavefics or rapefics, dodgy consent issues, anything underage, anything that crosses the line into abuse and/or torture, BDSM just for the sake of BDSM, the submissive doing it solely because they believe they deserve to be punished.
I have read good examples of stuff I don't like, but they were stories by authors whose work I had previously enjoyed and trusted.
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Awwww... *blushes* Thanks! No, I don't mind. If you see something that you want to comment on, feel free. The more the merrier.
Thanks for the rec. I'll have to check her work out, and the comments about sex and power were helpful.
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And thus far I've only written D/s in RPS, but if I had a FPS fandom where I thought it fit, I might. I'm all about the power, so the pain and the flogging and elaborate bondage and fisting and etc are usually not really all that interesting to me. And it doesn't have to be formalized BDSM to have a clear power dynamic, so BDSM is only one part of the spectrum of stories I enjoy that include strong power dynamics.
And I get tired of hardcore S/M - just not interested - and of "mine mine mine," though it's hot once in a while. I get tired of bloodplay *snore* because so not my kink - a few authors can still get to me with it, but it takes serious work... Master/slave things are also too far over into hardcore for me to truly be invested, though I'll read them. I like things more ambiguous, although still negotiated.
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I think that's why BDSM in LOTR FPS doesn't quite work for me. BDSM covers a lot of territory as a term, but even still, I think that the tag is often misused in FPS in my fandom.
Master/slave things are also too far over into hardcore for me to truly be invested, though I'll read them.
I'm pretty sure I know what you mean here, because I nodded as I read it, but just to clarify, hardcore in what way, and why doesn't that work for you?
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please reply to this and talk to me a little about what you think about BDSM fics,
I like 'em fine, when they're done well.
Your answers can be free form, of course, but I'm particularly interested if you respond differently to BDSM fics if they are FPS vs RPS.
It depends on your definition of BDSM. Are we talking "club" BDSM or are we talking sadism as in gothic fic ala Marquis de Sade or are we talking head games or borderline-consent domination? Contrary to fanon, not all BDSM is neatly wrapped in a package with a standard formula and instructions, and that's what most BDSM fic reminds me of these days. Everyone has a safe word, a set of fur-padded cuffs, there's a convenient condom under every pillow, and the word "head space" appears when it should not. If you have to SAY someone is getting into their headspace, then you cheated. You told, not showed.
Sometimes, two people are just fucking and the idea of tying the other person up seems like a darn good one. I love spontaneity in sex scenes, so if the bondage has to be planned and staged it reads just like that to me: planned and staged. I have a dislike of elaborate staged scenes in fiction. Nothing against them in real life, I just don't care to read about them.
re: FPS vs RPS. That also depends. I can see Aragorn wanting to tie Boromir up. What I can't imagine for the life of me is Aragorn knowing anything about safewords. It would seem like nonsense to him. So, yes, Aragorn would play games, he would have Boromir writhing like a pinned butterfly under him, but I look askance at his having any overt knowledge of the BDSM scene in middle earth.
Viggo, now... different story. :) I put nothing past him.
So, yes, there is a difference, and that difference is context. As long as the author takes care and uses common sense with regards to the origin of their story and the likely levels of knowledge each character could possibly possess, I don't much care either way if its FPS or RPS.
The same thing for writers. Are you more likely to write BDSM in FPS or RPS?
FPS
Why?
Because I don't write RPS. :) No real reason, I just don't. Also, RPS seems to tread more in the direction of the parlor games of BDSM and, as I said before, I don't enjoy reading about staged scenes. If they don't happen spontaneously, if there's no angst or great passion, if nothing is at stake, I'm not all that interested. There are exceptions. LOTRips, for example. That may be because I'm more accustomed to reading the fandom, but I have read several staged BDSM scenes with LOTRips personalities and I've enjoyed many of them.
(continued...)
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Hmmmm, that's interesting. I agree with you for a lot of reasons we've talked about, but I'm thinking, as a writer, it's like we are already playing roles when we are writing characters, and then to have those characters doing the same things tends to put us a remove from the character and the story that can mean no good.
Viggo, now... different story. :) I put nothing past him.
Viggo is sneaky that way. ^_~
if there's no angst or great passion, if nothing is at stake, I'm not all that interested.
*nods* A lot of the more "scened" BDSM fics leave me feeling cold for that reason.
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What is it about BDSM fics that you particularly enjoy?
The passion, which is a different thing entirely than reading about emotion.
If I can step out of my reader box for a moment and respond as a writer...
I like writing domination fic. I'm unapologetic about it. Fiction is fantasy and I feel no urge to adhere to rules when I'm in an arena where rules don't exist. (*see below) I write rapefic. I write borderline noncons and hard domination and bondage and rough sex and, on one occasion, branding. I don't particularly care to read about butt plugs or dog bowls or collars or piercings, because those things seem, to me, to belong more to a culture set or (more truly) a cultural fetish than a story about passion. If there's no passion, I'm not interested in reading it OR writing it. Show me passion with a butt plug and I might change my mind. :)
Are there any cliches or trends in BDSM fics that bother you? What are they and why?
Okay, keep in mind that this is fic we're talking about:
- the overuse of certain words and phrases. Slave, boy, master, referring to yourself in the third person, etc. "this boy wants to do your bidding, master" etc. It bugs me. It sounds affected and melodramatic and rehearsed. I prefer words that are sincere, passionate, ripped from the gut, incoherent if necessary, not stock lines that sound like they're been learned at Flamboyant Slave School.
-butt plugs. I find them hilarious. :) Who the hell wants to sit around all day with a plug up their ass, waiting for Master to call? I don't find that remotely exciting. Funny, yes. Exciting, no.
-dog bowls. Eating from a dog bowl. Puppy fic.
-puppy fic. I don't get puppy fic. My brain files it under Silly.
-fic where stuffed animals make an appearance, for any reason.
-formula BDSM. Stories that follow a predictable pattern of meeting, getting tied up, going over the safe word, and then sex, followed by untying and lots of kissing, cuddling and mutual reassurance of eternal devotion. Bland as vanilla icing, baby.
-condoms. I've read scenes that started off really hot and fell flat when a condom had to be found. Fictional characters are in no danger of catching STDs unless the author wishes them to, neither is it socially irresponsible to write bareback fic. Maybe it's a cultural thing. I don't know. I just find it goddamn bothersome to find condoms in every modern BDSM fic in existence. Condoms between male characters in fiction are not about preventing pregnancy; they're about fear. If you can't be fearless in fantasy, where can you be?
(*) note: Even for me, there are some rules. I won't write or read chanfic.
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I honestly cannot remember reading one--denial is a wonderful thing--but I know that Anita Blake's collection of stuffed penguins in Laurell Hamilton's novels make me want to extend that rule to all fiction.
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I used to feel like this. I didn't use condoms in my fics, because I felt like fiction shouldn't be a vehicle for preachiness and it's not my job to teach anyone about safe sex. But then someone mentioned something about realism and that completely changed my mind. I write, for the most part, characters in a realistic, modern day setting. For them not to use condoms, for them not to be worried about disease, feels off to me. Of course they would be. Or if they weren't, then I would have to show that as part of their personality, that brash "it can never happen to me" sort of attitude. Of course if I'm writing something pre-AIDS era or set in a fantasy world, then I'm not going to include condoms, but to have them missing from a modern day fic throws me out of the story, because I don't want to read about a perfect fantasy world, I want to read about our world.
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This is interesting, because I've never written a modern story with condoms and I've never gotten a complaint about it or even a polite query. I'm not sure that many people even notice.
because I don't want to read about a perfect fantasy world, I want to read about our world.
Hmm. Well, I wasn't speaking of preachiness or perfect worlds. My complaint is that condoms are not written very well in fanfiction. They are usually a perfunctory, mechanical exercise that is scribbled off with half a line of description, as if the writer were being forced to bother with it and wanted to get it over with as soon as possible. If the description is done creatively, I have no objections, but if you have to sacrifice good writing at a crucial point without an excellent reason, there's a basic fault there. I also don't think I would endow a character with reckless traits because they don't use condoms. There are other ways to achieve realism. It's about more than just caveats.
At the heart of this, we're writing derivative, speculative porn/fiction about fantasy characters. They no more exist in our world than we do in theirs. When I encourage writers to be fearless in fantasy, I'm saying just that: Stop being afraid of what everyone else expects you to write. I find condoms unnecessary in fiction, so I don't write them. I don't extrapolate the issue of condom use into character traits because I think there are far more interesting qualities to use. Besides, the focus should be on the story itself, not on this one minor point in the middle of a sex act.
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As for condom usage, it is a perfunctory exercise, much like taking off your clothes. Sure, you can write a long scene where someone strips for their partner, but most of the time, they just want to get out of their clothes and on with the sex. Why should condoms be any different?
I'm not saying everyone needs to write them; I'm just saying that to me, realism is very important in fiction, and if everyday details like that are missing, then it's not realistic to me. But that's just my opinion and obviously many others are happy without realistic details, so I'm sure there is fic out there for everyone.
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But, you're correct. There's enough fanfic for everyone out there.
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Seriously, I never notice unless it is to be annoyed at the off-hand way it's written. A sexy or creative condom scene I will applaud. Anything else is laziness or conformity.
Re; realism. The subway you mentioned above is an editorial gaffe. Lack of research. Realism stemmed from anti-Romanticism, a rejection of heroics and sentimentality in fiction, the origins of which can be traced to Balzac (whose attention to minutia bordered on obsession), and Flaubert, who was an anti-Romantic not only in his writing but in his subjects as well.
Both Flaubert and Balzac were attempting to cleanse their fiction of Romanticism (not an ideal to be shooting for in porn, I might add). While today Realism is a rather loose term defined by the standard of placing characters in everyday settings that the reader can identify with, the Realism you speak of is easily achieved across the board already. Condoms, their use or not in fiction, is a blip in the radar of personal preference, not an indispensable detail of all sex scenes.
And here, I am going to stop spamming savagseraph's BDSM lj thread. :) If you want to discuss the subject further, I wouldn't object if you dropped me a line on my lj or over email.
Happy writing!
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I don't watch many movies where sex is shown in graphic detail. It usually tends to be more fade to black. As for in fic, I guess we just move in completely different circles, because pretty much all fic I read includes them.
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FPS
OK, I'm gonna chime in with a lot of what's above, but oh, well, more data. I do respond to them differently when I read.
I haven't read much FPS with "bondage" stuff, and the little I've read didn't work for me, and it was a writer whose RPS/BDSM/KINK I lurved. And I think it's the historical issue: given Tolkien's characters exist in a Middle-earth that is very much true to *much* of what we know of the Middle Ages, I don't see the contemporary cultural workings out of BDSM happening. Power was different; it was perceived differently, it operated differently. Were there what we would call sadists? Sure, I'm sure (and pornography of sorts). But I don't imagine them asking. There are too many stories out of Rome and some of the Middle Ages about what people got up to, but they were the lords and ladies, so to speak, and could just do it. And people probably died. So the attempt to "transplant" the contemporary practices into FPS to me jar, are anachronistic.
It's not that human impulses and pleasure and such didn't run that way, but the external manifestations and understandings of it were different, if that makes sense.
However, I will note in a recent fic with darker elements, "So Small a Thing," I did flirt with some stuff that came pretty close to what many would call bondage and dominance. In the scenes where Boromir ties Frodo up (afraid he will run away again while Boromir is at daymeal), and earlier, when he is telling Frodo in fairly graphic detail what would happen to him if the Orcs captured him (and Boromir obviously roused by it and masturbates Frodo to climax), there are strong elements of that well ethos, erotic, I guess.
But that fic is a bit of a departure for me, Boromir has taken the Ring, the whole story is about non-con, with the Ring "forcing" Boromir and Frodo into a completely dysfunctional and potentially abusive sexual relationship (partly through dreams, and they don't always know when they are dreaming or when it's really happening). Whether that worked or not for people who read it, I don't know--cannot recall--for me, the scenes externalized something that had been going on in the internal dynamic and showed Boromir getting closer to falling.
He's aware of it to which is why he drinks so much before going back to the room, trying to make sure he's incapable of anything but sleeping.
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RPS
And Sean gives an historical lecture.
So while I don't like FPS bondage, apparently my characters have a different sense of it when they can RPG.
In fact, that's a bit part of Sean and Viggo's relationship, playing out against the King/Steward bit. And David in "Idaho" fears being caught between Aragorn and Boromir (although something seems to shift by "Wellington")--and the whole Boromir/Faramir thing (with Sean having a kink for brothercest and David not) is also more than a little strange.
It's sort of twisting around through FPS back into RPS but not really.
And while my guys have safewords, I think my whole series mainly focuses on the conflict David is having with his own rules as he's pushed to realize that he may be changing or realizing that he wants to change the rules because of his relationship with Sean and Viggo and all the issues of power that they've been playing through.
I don't like reading and don't write:
animal play of any sort
forced dressing up in drag or dresses or whatever
bloodplay (um, OK the vampire novel may count as sort of that)
the stylized/ritualized slave/master stuff (agree with kirby on that)
golden shower, water sports, related stuff
the well "club" stuff I guess it would be, relating to the master/slave
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Unlike others, I read and write FPS BDSM, when I feel the situation and characters warrant it. That is the biggest factor of all, that the situation and characters warrant it. For example, I wrote a story where Frodo and Merry tied Pippin up, to play a trick on him and out of a sense of fun and games that fits how I see their personalities.
Much of the language of BDSM doesn't fit the language and concepts of the FPS world, but do fit (because they emerge from our world, which is that of RPS non-AUs) the world of RPS. I think that one can write about BDSM without using its current language and concepts, but instead using ones that do fit the FPS world, if one has a compelling in-character reason to do so.
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Within my fandom fps/rps is a huge gray area. I prefer the stuff that's closest to fps--I write that way and most of my reading stays in that area. Moral/respect issues complicate the matter, but to be honest, a big selling point for me prefering fps (in any type of fiction) is that the fictional characters have much cooler names and personas. I'd rather read about brooding sociopath Kane, the enigma Edge and the man beast Rhyno over 3 athletes named Glen, Adam and Terry.
I have a larger moral issue with splatter fic featuring Rps than I do with sexually vivid fic featuring those people.
What is it about BDSM fics that you particularly enjoy?
I like kink. The kind of fan fiction I prefer mirrors the kind of porn/erotica I prefer.
To go a bit more detailed, I primarily read slash and I really dig reading about control & pride issues between alpha males. BDSM fics seem likely candiates to have such interactions, though sadly most don't.
Are there any cliches or trends in BDSM fics that bother you? What are they and why?
They are legion.
The ones I dislike the most: BDSM that's actually just plain old violence. There's a difference between knifeplay and stabbing.
No mental play between the players. In consensual scenes, a little banter and double checking of BOTH the top's and the bottom's enjoyment is damn sexy. In non-con scenes, emotion and reaction and mental games is what moves the scene out of rape scenario.
Top as nothing more than a pole: BDSM fan fiction focuses almost exclusively on the bottom and the bottom's state of mind. I suppose that's because the chicks who write it identify more with the bottom... but lately stuff has moved beyond identification and into pure laziness.
In two forms. Laziness from a writing standpoint because focusing so narrowly on one character is only telling half the story, and laziness from an outsider's pov (the reader) because damn, that's a selfish bottom. In typical BDSM fan fic, the bottom lounges on a comfy suface--sometimes tied, sometimes not, wowed with tongue action, stripped, orally wowed some more, then treated to blissful sex. What about the top? When was he told he was desirable? When was he wowed? When did the bottom do something that blissed him out? Even though BDSM plays with inequality, the sexiest scenes (for me) have very balanced exchanges. Bottoming is not an excuse to sprawl and do nothing to enhance the pleasure of the scene.
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The same thing for writers. Are you more likely to write BDSM in FPS or RPS? Why? I've written FPS BDSM. I don't write RPS.
What is it about BDSM fics that you particularly enjoy? I personally have a thing about knowledge. I love a fic that can take a character and somehow illuminate a bit that perhaps isn't so obvious in canon. And since BDSM breaks walls down, creates a space of radical honesty...I use it in fics. And in real life, it's anywhere from fun to frighteningly deep/good.
Or if you are one of those people who see a BDSM warning on a fic and think, "I'll pass," why? I actually pass a lot of the time, because people don't do BDSM right or believeably, and it throws me out of the story.
Are there any cliches or trends in BDSM fics that bother you? What are they and why? Nothing I can articulate.
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BDSM discussion- my two cents
I having nothing against BDSM stories, either in FPS or RPS as long as it is interesting and enjoyable for reasons besides the simple erotic forms it can take, because I think the arousal factor (or, in my case the sexual fascination factor) is very dependent on the particular methods used by the author and the good old kink/squick debate. I enjoy fics that work within an interesting cultural and/or psychological framework (see examples below)
The response with regard to FPS vs. RPS depends on the stuff I mentioned above. In FPS, I enjoy fics that either work with the same rules as the RL BDSM scene does, but only within the Elven community, probably because
In RPS, I usually enjoy well-done pieces that focus on the psychological factors, even with non-con situations (see
In writing, I will only deal with a kind of slavery-situation that Aragorn experiences while in Harad, which as far as I can see at the moment will probably involve D/s as a non-con practice and some staged scenes. Otherwise, my upcoming RPS AU will involve a theoretical discussion of alternative sexuality, but nothing more, as I feel uncomfortable with addressing the topic in practice, as I have never been involved in such things and am afraid of cliched writing in a realistic setting.
What I hate about BDSM fics is that most non-con fics that involve handcuffs, flogging and dominance use the label without having done research into what BDSM really means instead of coming up with clearer labels (e.g. rough sex or D/s)
I find this discussion topic really interesting and I hope my cooment was of use here
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Re: BDSM discussion- my two cents
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Well I'll read either one, but I find that I like FPS a bit more just because the fantasy aspect is more free-flowing with them than with RPS. My preexisting attraction to Viggo or Orlando would still be a factor whether it was FPS or RPS, but with the added element of the CHARACTER being added, there is more fantasy to play around with. I think that my preference also might also be due to the fact that I've read more clunky, slow-moving and poorly written RPS than I have FPS...
-Are you more likely to write BDSM in FPS or RPS? Why?
I write in FPS more than RPS because I like to play around with the characters whose traits and complexities have been predefined. Simple as that.
-What is it about BDSM fics that you particularly enjoy?
I like them when they are about people/characters that are not predisposed to BDSM, have shown no inclination for rolling that way before and now it's being introduced. In general, I like fic, both FPS and RPS, where the transfer of power is clearly defined and well-written. It's an important turning point in any story, and it can be really beautifully written. Personally, I love me a good bloodplay...
Hope that helps...and as for your current physical state, Grandma taught me that green tea will fix anything :)
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I'm particularly interested if you respond differently to BDSM fics if they are FPS vs RPS. Like them better in one form or another?
RPS isn't my thing, nothing personal, though I can read it if I don't recognize the people involved, and I have seen some very good BDSM writing in the Valimar role-playing game. Myself, I write exclusively FPS.
What is it about BDSM fics that you particularly enjoy?
Ooooh, the intensity. The ferocity. The power dynamics. The eroticism of pain and sadism. (Lots of people here are commenting on the power dynamics but very few on the physical side, the blurring of pain and pleasure.) BDSM in a fantasy world setting allows for idealization and interesting situations that speak to our fantasies. In my personal life I prefer my BDSM to be homoerotic, so that's what I tend to write in my fics as well.
I wrote my first BDSM fic because I was trying to give an intense warrior character a probable sexuality. I wrote my second BDSM fic because I wanted to explore that character further, and part of that involved making the BDSM probable, which led to a whole AU thing.
For one sticky part of Tolkien canon, it seemed like adding BDSM to the mix was the only thing that made Tolkien's series of events make sense...
Or if you are one of those people who see a BDSM warning on a fic and think, "I'll pass," why?
As someone noted earlier, a desire for BDSM-fic quality control. Though I will click on it to give it a starting scan more often than not; if I make it past the author intro and warnings, I'll usually read it.
Are there any cliches or trends in BDSM fics that bother you? What are they and why?
Some of these are way LOTR-specific.
1. Sauron as Evil Dominant Overlord. I saw this done brilliantly, once, but more often it's the start of a very generic fantasy.
2. Legolas as Bottom To All Middle-Earth.
3. This is an unusual one...fear of the grotesque, reluctance to grapple with it. Drastic perverse things may be in progress but they have to be pretty. My whole AU may be an overprettification of BDSM and kink, but in original stuff, I like an acknowledgement of the rough edges. Laura Antoinou does a good job of this.
4. Unrealistic BDSM/noncon activities. Because tops get tired. Bottoms reach their limit. Victims fail to become infatuated with the person tormenting them. Person #49 in the Rape the Captive line gets bored and decides the Captive looks rather shopworn and goes off to play dice, and the party breaks up.
5. IMHO torture-fic and rape-fic are as valid as genres as BDSM-fic, but like
6. As
Frankly, I think Frodo-and-Sam-do-Healing-BDSM, which I've seen several times, is probable and engaging, and it uses the same basic excuse I do for elf BDSM's origins. One person's cliche is another person's kink sometimes.
As a last comment, I'm always curious to know if authors writing BDSM fic do or have done BDSM themselves.
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I found myself nodding with agreement at a lot of the points you made here.
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I've disliked or felt indifferent to far more BDSM fics than I've liked, though.
I think that's because BDSM in and of itself is not one of my kinks, so the mere presence of the kink or its trappings isn't enough to do it for me.
What's important to me is powerful emotion, intimacy, and character insight. Good BDSM can be almost unparalleled in its capacity to bring out all of these. In particular, BDSM (at least when it's written the way I like) is profoundly intimate, and that's a bulletproof kink.
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RPS in costumes, is brilliant though :D
As for RPS, I do read BDSM, but never anything seriously hardcore (I don't think. It's not something I engage in in RL, so I don't really know where I'm at really). It's not something I will go looking for either, but I definately wouldn't pass just because of that element.
For a BDSM fic to work, it's all about the characterisation. Some people, I just don't see as being into that, like Billy, whereas others (Dom) just scream it (it's the wrist cuffs)
As for why I like it, I find the idea of such implicit trust in another person incredibly appealing. I like the idea that one character is just exactly what the other person needs. Possibly my favourite BDSM fic is 'Fun&Games' by
What irks me in BDSM fics is excessive use of Master/Slave as titles. Master is never a title I find overly convincing at all. Also, I don't like non-con unless it's absolutely condemned, and not always then.
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I've read Brenda's Fun & Games series a time or two. *grins* Though that pairing isn't something that I would seek out, the fic itself really just grabbed me and wouldn't let go.